16 Comments
User's avatar
Ash's avatar

#3 is an odd one: Assuming God is omnipotent, he should have some way of proving he exists beyond reasonable doubt, rendering it perhaps falsifiable.

Expand full comment
Dov Ber's avatar

Of course, it would be trivially easy for God to convince everyone in the world that he exists if he wanted to, but evidently he does not want to, so the burden of proof falls upon those who claim he exists.

Expand full comment
Ash's avatar

Not yet.

Expand full comment
Dov Ber's avatar

I wouldn't hold my breath

Expand full comment
Ash's avatar

This is basic. BTW, I strongly believe that Judaism cannot be falsified, as it doesn't fall into the category of fact. Its for a later post.

Expand full comment
Dov Ber's avatar

Will your later post explain the difference between believing in Judaism and believing in the Simulation hypothesis or the Dragon hypothesis?

Expand full comment
Ash's avatar

Sorry, I had to answer someone else's comments. But oyurs is next. Promise!

Expand full comment
Dov Ber's avatar

Looking forward to it!

Expand full comment
Ash's avatar

Yes. I hope to get to it next post.

Expand full comment
marzipan's avatar

To respond to the topic at hand, I'd begin by saying that if a pandemic caused mankind to lose their sense of sight, it would be totally "unfalsifiable" to claim that color was real. The concept of unfalsifiabity is really a word game that since "I never experienced it, therefore it can't be real". In my example you can see how there are other kinds of claims that are "unfalsifiable" that can nevertheless be true. (Of course this is true for any historical claim as well, ours just happens to be quite similar to the one I chose.) What Sagan is doing with his unfalsifiability blabber is reframing the argument as scientific one (and I mean the current physical science version of that), when it is really an argument of a different nature entirely.

I hope to respond to your other post soon.

Expand full comment
Dov Ber's avatar

You don't need everyone to lose their eyesight in a pandemic -- it's already unfalsifiable to claim that *other people* experience color, or indeed, experience anything at all. You might be the only mind in the universe and everyone else is just a p-zombie. I prefer not to argue over the sorts of topics that stoned college kids debate in their dorm rooms.

Expand full comment
marzipan's avatar

True, but while you wrote that very well, you missed the point. I didn’t express interest in debating these sorts of topics; I merely used my example (as I explained) because it is similar to Judaism’s claim. My point was simple: Sagan’s “unfalsifiability” is useless in this conversation. Judaism’s claim isn’t a scientific argument, but that doesn’t mean it’s like the invisible lizard or whatever.

Expand full comment
marzipan's avatar

Or we can have the conversation here...?

Expand full comment
Dov Ber's avatar

I see that you're very eager to continue the conversation, but if you are unable to answer the question in the title of this post, you're frankly admitting that there's no conceivable way I could change your mind. I'm not sure how fruitful further conversation will be.

Expand full comment
marzipan's avatar

Eager is hardly the word.

I can’t answer that question in one fell swoop. It just isn’t the first thing to talk about because it gets answered after many other layers. Your need for a one sentence answer is unreasonable.

Expand full comment
marzipan's avatar

Here is one sentence though: I would know I'm wrong if all the layers that have gotten me to where I am are shown to be unfounded.

Expand full comment